The Children of the 4 Winds

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The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Sleep on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:33 am

So Unicorn Tacticians.... Does this mean that commanders are not making it back to EE? Because we are pretty certain that Unicorn are getting Battle maidens/paragons, and it's been revealed by the DT that they will be getting scouts as well (due to the restructuring of the recon mechanic), this means they will not get commanders. In addition to this, no clan has had a commander theme previewed yet. Thoughts?

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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Daigotsu Thrakhath on Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:29 am

The blurb for that theme talked about scouts, maybe the theme will be scouts and tacticians? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Moto Damasko on Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:33 pm

Honestly I have no clue, I suspect we will get a few scout personalities for flavor but not as part of a theme. I don't really know though, this write-up was piss poor at answering any questions and confusing in it's own right. I also felt it was poorly written and fleshed out, it felt rushed.
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  panku on Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:06 pm

I'd bet money, serious money, that scouts get the axe.

I'm 100% positive that the themes each clan gets in Forgotten legacy are the themes that will be supported into EE.

If they didn't intend to support Commanders i doubt they would have printed Feint and Strike. If you look, you will notice a distinct lack of fate support for Hero's, Berserker's and Undead though.

As far as the new theme preview, i like the concept. Instead of Tacticians actually being the spearhead of an army like lion, unicorn will use tacticians to support there cavalry via cards like Consideration.

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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Moto Damasko on Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:40 pm

panku wrote:I'd bet money, serious money, that scouts get the axe.

I'm 100% positive that the themes each clan gets in Forgotten legacy are the themes that will be supported into EE.

If they didn't intend to support Commanders i doubt they would have printed Feint and Strike. If you look, you will notice a distinct lack of fate support for Hero's, Berserker's and Undead though.

As far as the new theme preview, i like the concept. Instead of Tacticians actually being the spearhead of an army like lion, unicorn will use tacticians to support there cavalry via cards like Consideration.

Exactly, the only way I see any scouts being printed is as generic shinjo personalities that are useful for all themes (think jeng-yun or yupadi) instead of as direct support. I like it this way, now we have two useful "utility" personalities that can stay home and support attacking enemy armies with the cavalry early and the main army at the end.
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Velo75 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:48 pm

if I were a Unicorn player, I would be concerned by this

by giving a personality the even if not at the current battlefield clause, you will consciously or not make that ability or the force of the personality weaker...the FL tactician is an example of this, and I consider him pretty underwhelming (ie, he wouldnt make the cut in a dedicated Lion tactician deck)

if you're not at the fight, you're less likely to win the fight
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Moto Damasko on Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:16 am

I see no problem with the boxable 3 force tactician with a battle ability. Seems like a great deal to me.
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Velo75 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:15 am

I guess this shows the different expectation of value when your box makes 2 less afro
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Moto Damasko on Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:19 am

Velo75 wrote:I guess this shows the different expectation of value when your box makes 2 less afro

Well, if you had a personality that you could buy for box with similar stats wouldn't you buy him?
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Velo75 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:26 am

well yeah but boxable for me means my clan holding buys him

as it stands, 7g for a 3f non cav tac with what is a mediocre ability that can be used while elsewhere is not that great
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Moto Damasko on Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:32 am

Yeah, that really is the problem. But at least I'm not paying that extra one gold I already pay for nearly all cavalry personalities. I don't think the cost to ability/power ratio is that far off, but then again when compared to past unicorn tacticians...
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Sleep on Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:12 am

I also think the boxable 3f tac is weak. The whole strength of tactician is to enable you to take early provinces solo. And at 3f, he is incapable of doing this (except against phoenix or embassy... lol assuming that either of those decks would allow a purple ground pounder to take a province when they are built to take on the likes of Lion and BOTH go first against unicorn). And if you leave him at home, then you just paid 5g for literally 0f. Granted, yes he can bow somebody even if he is at home, but that is pretty subpar considering you paid 5g for it.

If there was a battle strategy that said "Pay 5g, bow a card and if it is a personality, negate it's next movement" then it wouldn't see play in any situation. He cannot use his ability if the opponent is unopposed (rule of presence... so no bowing the sole defender then moving someone in), and he cannot use the ability from another province (only from home, or from the current province). If this is the kind of tacticians that the unicorn are going to be getting, then I'll be happy to play against them all arc. Gotta agree with velo, if this guy was 5g, then he would see play since he could come in off of your stables. But at 7g, you would need a stable + a 2for2 (or your SH) to pay for him, and you would still need to spend MORE money on the personality who is actually going to do the province crushing. Get's a big "meh" from me.

Also remember that clan estate will only produce 2 for him. He is very overcosted.

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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Moto Damasko on Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:51 pm

Guess I'll just play him anyways, regardless of what you guys think.
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  panku on Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:26 pm

I don't understand where sleep gets the idea that Tacticians solo provinces. Lion tacticians is a swarm deck, using mostly 3f tacticians. As far as unicorn is concerned they only have 2 5f+ cavalry tacticians and they are both unique. In fact, the only non-unique 5f tactician in CE is a unicorn without a horse, so i doubt he has ever even seen play.

I think this guy is absolutely solid. 3f tactician, that has a bow action, that potentially can be done from home and negate movement, from a boxable? People have been playing Ikoma Satorou (3f 6g tac with a weak movement ability) all arc and that guy sucks donkey nuts by comparison. Let me also point out that Akodo Shunori basic was a Staple for lion for quite a while and he was only a 2f 5g tactician with no ability.

The real issue i have with the Unicorn Tactician deck is that it has not been supported at all through CE. Even with the addition of this guy the deck still does not quite come together. As of right now there is no real incentive to run any guys that don't have horses.

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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Moto Damasko on Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:36 pm

Exactly, he is the first in line of incentive. The deck is essentially central castle for unicorn. The problem was we saw very little actual good tactician support. Next arc the incentive is starting out strong with tairu exp and this solid fellow. I expect to see an early deck with those two, byung and some solid personalities with battle actions out of outsider keep doing well.

I don't want tacticians to take provinces solo, that's what charge does. I want tacticians with abilities that rock (control the board and consideration) that if you don't defend are easier at taking the province (tactician for force).
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Sleep on Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:23 pm

You'll have to forgive me, since we don't have a dedicated lion player in our playgroup, and the lion decks I HAVE played against I've always heard/got the impression that turn one you wanted to see a "4f tac" because that's the perfect number for taking most provinces (8f, so kills any 7 province strength). I understand that shunran saw play, and I agree, early arc when options are limited I too would play a 5g 2f tactician. He's a lion "boxable", but the difference here (as velo pointed out) is that he comes out on a copper mine as well.

This unicorn tac has to be bought with a clan holding AND a bk or bamboo harvestor... and you can't even use clan estate to buy him if you didn't see a stables. Is he a good "boxable"? Yes, 3f with any ability is pretty good for a boxable across the board. Is he actually a good card though? Worth a spot in the deck? I don't believe so in CE. Early EE if they get a box that supports tacticians then he'll probably see play just due to the lack of card choices, but I don't expect to see him around later in the arc.

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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  panku on Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:29 pm

The only decent 4f non-unique lion tacticians are Senzo, and Kuzamoto. There are a few 4+ f unique tacticians also, but generally attacking provinces solo on turn 3 is suicide and loses you games.

I also fail to understand how 7g is any kind of problem for Unicorn. Worst case scenario, (turn 1 they buy 2 2for2s) they are forced to buy a 8g personality in addition to the 7g boxable turn 2. Let me point out that the best case scenario they buy a 7g personality, an 8g personality and 2 holdings. More likely they buy 2 bodies an a holding. Lion has wet dreams about buying 2 bodies and a holding on turn 2.

Either way, this is all moot since unicorn tacticians isn't an actual deck atm. Even if it where viable, no one would play it because a) unicorn isn't popular and b) you play unicorn for cavalry c) boxable hate would absolutely wreck the deck given its current personality base.

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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Velo75 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:30 pm

panku wrote: People have been playing Ikoma Satorou (3f 6g tac with a weak movement ability) all arc and that guy sucks donkey nuts by comparison.



How is movement while bowed into any battlefield with units (not just current) and straighten a weak movement? Isn't that just about as good a movement as you can get?
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Moto Damasko on Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:05 pm

This thread is epic XD

< will play unicorn without cavalry. Honestly I was playing ming-li and got yelled at for it, but she was boss with weapons xD.

I think tairu deserves a slot in unicorn decks purely for his card-draw potential.
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Velo75 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:37 pm

allow me to elaborate further: make that Unicorn 6g and give him Lion Clan, I still play satoru

AND ONE MORE THING, I DON'T VERY MUCH LIKE MONKS AT ALL, THEY PUT THEIR RINGS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE SWORD AND ITS SILLY Dancing Banana
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Moto Damasko on Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:21 am

Velo75 wrote:allow me to elaborate further: make that Unicorn 6g and give him Lion Clan, I still play satoru

AND ONE MORE THING, I DON'T VERY MUCH LIKE MONKS AT ALL, THEY PUT THEIR RINGS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE SWORD AND ITS SILLY

And there's more than 5... WRONG GAME! GTFO
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Re: The Children of the 4 Winds

Post  Akodo Arasou on Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:33 am

Make that personality 6 gold and Lion Clan then I would play him and Satoru. Leaving a personality at home for defense while still having a viable extra action in the battle that only requires presence can be pretty handy. Just as I would play Tairu exp if he were Lion clan...we're already used to paying 8 gold for a 4/3 infantry Tactician and card advantage is awesome.

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