EE thoughts.

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EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:21 pm

So for the last 2 days I've been building decks and playing solitaire with EE in egg of pan'ku (the database is only missing 22 cards IIRC).

First of all, I just want to say that it's pretty swell seeing all the new cards actually sitting in front of you. There is a certain catharsis in building a deck without having to worry about Embassy, or SPC, or Zoo, or LSC. So I've been trying to get into a very creative mood, finding what combos I can and in general, just putting cards together, shuffling them up, and seeing how they work.

Being primarily a Johnny, I find the most enjoyment in forging forward and exploring deck ideas on my own. The last 6-7 months of CE have been very frustrating for me and uninteresting simply because the environment got to a point where you had to either run the most powerful cookie-cutter builds, or spend half your deck on meta for those builds. With the fresh start from EE I feel like, for the first time in almost a year, I can really get creative and try to find my niche.

So far I've playtested every win condition other than enlightenment. After knocking out the decks that I had brainstormed prior to the Egg of Pan'ku release (mainly Kaiu and Yasuki) I branched out a little and started putting together some other decks. Surprisingly, I had three times more fun playing military than I did any of the honor/dishonor variants. I've also been pleasantly surprised with a few themes that I thought were going to be horrible...

Anyone else doing any Egg testing (or proxy testing)? What are your thoughts?

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  panku on Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:35 pm

One thing i've learned in CE is not to worry about the greater meta game.The environment in the southeast is extremely soft and people either didn't run the tier 1 decks or couldn't play them to there full potential. So play what you like. Any deck can top 8 if you play well enough.

As a general rule though, i hate combos. I don't like relying on specific cards to win. I much prefer consistant and efficient decks that give me a chance to win any game assuming i play well enough. I also extremely dislike specific meta that can hose my decks. Therefore i will once again be avoiding control and playing exclusively military. Incidentally my faction, Spider, only has military themes, yay!

I really would like to play Conquerors, but Commanders have so little support or synergy going into EE.

Kensai has one of the most optimized fate decks in EE, but lack any game against control.

I have absolutely no interest in ninjas.

So more likely than not i will be focusing on Paragons as we enter EE (surprise!)

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Pruto on Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:07 pm

I think i'm a better control player than military, probably fits my personality more. I had the most success with LSC and did decent with embassy that one time (still feel dirty!). However over the last two years i had the most fun playing military decks, but i've never been more than 4-3 playing any variation of it. I think i'm going to start off with Lion military, even though it seems their opening EE card base is pretty week. Love the tactician stronghold though. Lion ancestors looks really fun, but i don't think they have the cards yet for it.

I look forward to one last kotei season with you guys!
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Pruto on Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:05 pm

btw rules question, for the "soul of" cards can you use the non-EE version?
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  panku on Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:08 am

Yeah, the Soul-of personalities are basically MRPs. You can use either version.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  BayushiTrevron on Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:54 pm

panku wrote:Yeah, the Soul-of personalities are basically MRPs. You can use either version.

However, most specifically where it applies to some of the Spider Kensai reprints, look for 'Soul of's to actually be a little different.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:19 pm

BayushiTrevron wrote:
panku wrote:Yeah, the Soul-of personalities are basically MRPs. You can use either version.

However, most specifically where it applies to some of the Spider Kensai reprints, look for 'Soul of's to actually be a little different.

Yeah... I didn't check this or anything, but if I recall correctly, "soul of" personalities count as the personality that they are the soul of for UNIQUENESS purposes. 99% of the time the statlines are the same, but in some outlier cases some of the stats are changed. The changed stats IIRC is not necessarily an MRP of the previous card.

For example, if you were playing CE block constructed, and you brought out The Dread Kar, for example, he would still have shadowlands because in CE he did have shadowlands. But assuming you are playing constructed (which always follows the most modern arc cards), and had The Dread Kar in your deck, he would count as Nishimura, and as such would not have the shadowlands trait, and WOULD have the "order of the spider" trait.

In the event you were playing CE/EE Constructed (like War of Honor, for example), then you could only have one of the card because they count for each other for uniqueness purposes.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Pruto on Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:00 pm

i lost a game at gencon because i was not playing the MRP of a card (ring of fire in that case). I doubled checked before hand to make sure all my old cards were the same as the new ones, i guess i was not thorough enough. Anyway all that to say MRPs and old editions confuses the hell out of me and my opponents, been trying to use only current edition versions when possible.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Moto Damasko on Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:22 pm

Mostly I am worried by the prominence of "no" cards this arc. Counter's are fine, but when you have cards that are essentially worse versions of deadly ground with no counters and in more phases/varieties. I dislike it greatly.

Yasuki is on my worry list for how many good actions they have, dishonor in general. Paragon's will be solid... I've mostly been peering at what's available rather than true building.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:10 pm

Moto Damasko wrote:Mostly I am worried by the prominence of "no" cards this arc. Counter's are fine, but when you have cards that are essentially worse versions of deadly ground with no counters and in more phases/varieties. I dislike it greatly.

Yasuki is on my worry list for how many good actions they have, dishonor in general. Paragon's will be solid... I've mostly been peering at what's available rather than true building.

I really recommend building, because the environment feels completely different (at least to me) so cards that would be overwhelming/underwhelming in CE may be just the opposite once you actually see them in play in front of you in a real environment.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:12 pm

Also, I do NOT recommend trying to stick to just one theme, outside of honor/dishonor. For every military deck I've built so far, I've found that basically just taking the best personalities I can and then trying to match a gold curve and fate deck to the keyword ratio percentages (or just blanket good cards instead of keyword specific cards) has given me the most success.

Hell, the strongest deck I've built so far is a deck that isn't even an EE theme.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Moto Damasko on Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:38 pm

Sleep wrote:Also, I do NOT recommend trying to stick to just one theme, outside of honor/dishonor. For every military deck I've built so far, I've found that basically just taking the best personalities I can and then trying to match a gold curve and fate deck to the keyword ratio percentages (or just blanket good cards instead of keyword specific cards) has given me the most success.

Hell, the strongest deck I've built so far is a deck that isn't even an EE theme.

Yeah I entirely agree. unless your theme has specific support that's useful all the time, you really should concentrate on a build that is gonna be consistent, that hasn't changed from the beginning of last arc.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  panku on Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:56 pm

You really should try to look at things a bit more objectively Pat. Every round of previews some card/cards come along that you find to be broken(remember ianuki or destructive priorities?), and they never turn out to be an issue.

I also think your painting the picture with overly broad strokes Corey. Every deck is going to function differently. I wouldn't run a single personality in my Sohei deck that isn't both Monk and Kensai as an example.

I've got 3 of my EE decks built with proxies, can't wait to actually start playing.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Moto Damasko on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:04 pm

panku wrote:You really should try to look at things a bit more objectively Pat. Every round of previews some card/cards come along that you find to be broken(remember ianuki or destructive priorities?), and they never turn out to be an issue.


You're right, and I am not saying that they are going to be "Broken" decks, if I did then I mispoke. What I mean is I dislike the style of game-play where a player says "no" and it sticks. There are no ways around it. Example: Accidental confession or superior reach (sorta).

I haven't build anything but once the set drops I'll start really looking. Might goof off in egg sometime soon though.

Have a feeling the tactician unicorn deck will be my high priority with lion scouts/unicorn shugenja second. Right now the tactician lineup is solid, solid battle actions, consideration, and I am loving the reprinting of the 10 gold tactician, and junpei.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Pruto on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:09 pm

panku wrote:Every deck is going to function differently. I wouldn't run a single personality in my Sohei deck that isn't both Monk and Kensai as an example.
.

some themes don't have that luxury, lion tact only has 16 personalities, so it has to run some paragons/heroes/scouts/shuggies. When you do that it leads to weird combos and inconsistencies. Actually i don't think there is a single lion theme that can field a full crew as of now (just checked, scouts, kitsu honor, and paragons each have 18). I just started doing decks on egg today, enjoying the fresh restart so far.

btw a little off topic, did anyone pick up the old republic or plan to? I didn't realize it came out yesterday...


Last edited by Pruto on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  panku on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:16 pm

Your right Paul, that's why i said "Every deck is going to function differently."

PS: SWs is lame.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:18 pm

Pruto wrote:
panku wrote:Every deck is going to function differently. I wouldn't run a single personality in my Sohei deck that isn't both Monk and Kensai as an example.
.

some themes don't have that luxury, lion tact only has 16 personalities, so it has to run some paragons/heroes/scouts/shuggies. When you do that it leads to weird combos and inconsistencies. Actually i don't think there is a single lion theme that can field a full crew as of now. I just started doing decks on egg today, enjoying the fresh restart so far.

btw a little off topic, did anyone pick up the old republic or plan to? I didn't realize it came out yesterday...

I know Jimmy did but it isn't playable until the 20th. I'm mildly interested only in the sense of it giving me something to do with my freetime between now and when EE ships. But to be honest, I don't have the money to buy it and play it for about a month at best. EE will take up most of my free time after it launches, and of course there are some big name games I DONT want to miss (namely Diablo3 and Torchlight 2) and then later in the year/early 2013 there's going to be guild wars 2.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Pruto on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:46 pm

panku wrote:Your right Paul, that's why i said "Every deck is going to function differently."

PS: SWs is lame.

i know, i am not disagreeing. I kinda like it, more creativity allowed

and ouch, don't be mean to SW!
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Moto Damasko on Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:05 pm

Pretty much my tactician deck runs:

Good battle action personalities no matter the flavor, and the rest tacticians. I might be tempted to even run a few of the scout action that lets you fish for a card in your discard pile since I'll be running 6 scouts.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:29 pm

I just uploaded this...it's a link to the filters.xml file (replace it in your egg of pan'ku folder) to be able to search emperor edition/expansions in the filters in the deck editor.

http://www.mediafire.com/?pwgwuy030824o6s

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:22 pm

Oddly enough, my first deck I'm going to build IRL is probably going to be Lion Ancestors. I built it last night and I really had a lot of fun with the way it plays. It's very flavorful, while still being rather effective (I gained 12 honor in a battle to win the game when the opponent just thought he was taking my 2nd province). It has access to a card pool that's very conducive to burst honor gains, and that's fun to me.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Pruto on Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:41 pm

Sleep wrote:Oddly enough, my first deck I'm going to build IRL is probably going to be Lion Ancestors. I built it last night and I really had a lot of fun with the way it plays. It's very flavorful, while still being rather effective (I gained 12 honor in a battle to win the game when the opponent just thought he was taking my 2nd province). It has access to a card pool that's very conducive to burst honor gains, and that's fun to me.

heeeey! my ancestors! my problem with that deck is that it doesn't appear to be very consistent, the deck is based on having ancestors defending. But you got only 9 personalities in the deck that creates ancestors and only 3 of those potentially creates more than one. So when it clicks it is potentially crazy, but you're going to have games and matchups where it will get steam rolled.

but hey, i'm probably wrong, haven't really spend much time looking at the card pool yet.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:42 pm

Pruto wrote:
Sleep wrote:Oddly enough, my first deck I'm going to build IRL is probably going to be Lion Ancestors. I built it last night and I really had a lot of fun with the way it plays. It's very flavorful, while still being rather effective (I gained 12 honor in a battle to win the game when the opponent just thought he was taking my 2nd province). It has access to a card pool that's very conducive to burst honor gains, and that's fun to me.

heeeey! my ancestors! my problem with that deck is that it doesn't appear to be very consistent, the deck is based on having ancestors defending. But you got only 9 personalities in the deck that creates ancestors and only 3 of those potentially creates more than one. So when it clicks it is potentially crazy, but you're going to have games and matchups where it will get steam rolled.

but hey, i'm probably wrong, haven't really spend much time looking at the card pool yet.

With the changes to spells, having the cheaper shugenja chump block and then attach a spell that gains honor and sends the opponent home is pretty swell. Almost all of the shugenja in the deck are expendable other than the 10g "make an ancestor" one.

I only saw three ancestors in my most recent playtest and still rocketed in honor very fast. My favorite part of the deck is that it's very effective against big unit, with very few of the cards caring about attachments or force levels. One of my favorites is "blow up your ancestor, blow up a card without attachments". Because of the box, this gains you an honor (one of your ancestors is dying), and you either blow up a big naked unique OR blow up an expensive attachment.

Basically, a lot of the actions get a lot of bang for their buck.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Moto Damasko on Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:11 pm

Sleep wrote:
Pruto wrote:
Sleep wrote:Oddly enough, my first deck I'm going to build IRL is probably going to be Lion Ancestors. I built it last night and I really had a lot of fun with the way it plays. It's very flavorful, while still being rather effective (I gained 12 honor in a battle to win the game when the opponent just thought he was taking my 2nd province). It has access to a card pool that's very conducive to burst honor gains, and that's fun to me.

heeeey! my ancestors! my problem with that deck is that it doesn't appear to be very consistent, the deck is based on having ancestors defending. But you got only 9 personalities in the deck that creates ancestors and only 3 of those potentially creates more than one. So when it clicks it is potentially crazy, but you're going to have games and matchups where it will get steam rolled.

but hey, i'm probably wrong, haven't really spend much time looking at the card pool yet.

With the changes to spells, having the cheaper shugenja chump block and then attach a spell that gains honor and sends the opponent home is pretty swell. Almost all of the shugenja in the deck are expendable other than the 10g "make an ancestor" one.

I only saw three ancestors in my most recent playtest and still rocketed in honor very fast. My favorite part of the deck is that it's very effective against big unit, with very few of the cards caring about attachments or force levels. One of my favorites is "blow up your ancestor, blow up a card without attachments". Because of the box, this gains you an honor (one of your ancestors is dying), and you either blow up a big naked unique OR blow up an expensive attachment.

Basically, a lot of the actions get a lot of bang for their buck.

Did burst honor runner (pheonix presence-less burst) do well at the beginning of last arc? What options are in the current setting to mitigate honor burst or dishonor burst?
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:23 pm

Moto Damasko wrote:
Did burst honor runner (pheonix presence-less burst) do well at the beginning of last arc? What options are in the current setting to mitigate honor burst or dishonor burst?

Yeah, Shrine of Champions was a solid deck at the beginning of the arc. It wasn't ever top tier but it was consistent and won lots of games.

What I like about the deck is sitting at 28-30 honor, having 3 provinces and a full hand. Your opponent attacks in all at one province thinking he still has 1-2 turns, but nearly EVERY single fate card the deck runs in battle either blows something up or gains 2 honor. Combine that with the 2-3 honor you are going to get for your ancestors dying, and it's very easy to cross 40 a turn earlier than your opponent thinks you will.

It's a lot of fun. Granted, I haven't playtested it against a lot of military, and add to that the fact that I'm just not very good at deck building, so I wouldn't say that it's too powerful or anything until I played against Rich, Anthony, or Patrick's military decks... but after playing a few games against myself and a few solitaire games it's pretty consistent and honestly just a lot of fun.

~Edit~ In response to stopping it... sure! There's the "reduce all honor gains by 1 that aren't during a battle" which will really slow the deck down because in the limited/dynasty phase it gains a LOT of 1's. Also, Deeds and Words is back, which will hurt the deck if used on a 3 honor gain Visitation. That being said, Deeds and Words is a VERY specific meta choice at the holding slot, and thus should really only be played if you have several powerful honor runners in your local environment.

Also, The deck will have problems against dishonor... I just don't see how it's supposed to attack into them. Anthony's Yasuki deck would walk circles around this thing.

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