EE thoughts.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  valentine on Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:47 pm

panku wrote:One thing i've learned in CE is not to worry about the greater meta game.The environment in the southeast is extremely soft and people either didn't run the tier 1 decks or couldn't play them to there full potential. So play what you like. Any deck can top 8 if you play well enough.

Yes and no. Ultimatly, the best decks are (and this is as eloquently as english lets me put it) those that don't really give a fuck. And saying that an environment is 'soft' implies that there is one that is 'hard', which is something that I don't really agree with. I don't really agree with decks being 'tier 1' and so on. It merely is.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Moto Damasko on Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:02 pm

valentine wrote:(and this is as eloquently as english lets me put it) those that don't really give a fuck

Quote worthy...

also...

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Akodo Arasou on Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:36 pm

I've been playtesting with Lion Ancestors pretty quite a bit and I agree that it isn't consistent enough to be considered "Tier 1"...yet. Now granted there could be some play differences that will account for you doing better then I, but I've done some testing against multiple military decks and so far it just hasn't panned out as well as I would like. If I get the right cards it can do very well, if I don't then it goes downhill very quickly. With another expansion to to give us another Shugenja and hopefully some good Water/Honor spells it should take off.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:49 pm

What I like about it (with my current build at least) is that I operate at maximum efficiency every turn. And what I mean by that is nearly every single personality is used EVERY SINGLE TURN. I always have actions in hand and many answers to hard problems. The deck can bow through attachments, has un-negatable send home, and also has really powerful destruction effects (bow a 2/2 ancestor, destroy ANY card w/out attachments, then gain an honor). It has many answers.

I think the deck is very viable and POSSIBLY tier one, but I'll need to playtest against more of the field and against good players before making actual claims. I think though that it will just see some modification of it's fate side support since it is VERY loose (with 6-9 spots that can be whatever meta you need) but still remain a powerful deck.

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  BayushiTrevron on Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:58 pm

Moto Damasko wrote:
What I mean is I dislike the style of game-play where a player says "no" and it sticks. There are no ways around it. Example: Accidental confession or superior reach (sorta).

Any other 'no' cards you can come up with, or is the existence of 1 and a half 'no' cards too much?

Specifically in the case of Accidental Confession, while it is without a doubt a 'no' card, in an environment when actually dishonoring personalities isn't a dime-a-dozen, you can't really contend that it's too much. Often, I've wasted an Accidental Confession to dishonor a guy, because my opponents often have too much choice in the matter.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Moto Damasko on Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:35 pm

BayushiTrevron wrote:
Moto Damasko wrote:
What I mean is I dislike the style of game-play where a player says "no" and it sticks. There are no ways around it. Example: Accidental confession or superior reach (sorta).

Any other 'no' cards you can come up with, or is the existence of 1 and a half 'no' cards too much?

Specifically in the case of Accidental Confession, while it is without a doubt a 'no' card, in an environment when actually dishonoring personalities isn't a dime-a-dozen, you can't really contend that it's too much. Often, I've wasted an Accidental Confession to dishonor a guy, because my opponents often have too much choice in the matter.

Accidental confession is a primary offender, but you also have the new yasuki guy who is beast, superior reach for kensai is also pretty bonkers. Pretty much any form of trait or ability that says "You cannot perform actions". There's a crab berserker who is another primary offender, and any weenie blitz deck that ends up in the environment can run the blow your dude up, cards in the unit can't perform actions vs resilient big unit, because negation or not you just removed abilities from the table, and/or straight up killed something. For a card you hate, I think disgraced is a terrible card imo. Provide a punishment, not a complete shutdown.

Just see the lack of trading as non-condusive to what this game is all about, like playing tennis with a guy you just knocked the @%^) out.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  BayushiTrevron on Mon Jan 09, 2012 9:47 pm

I just think it's a matter of degrees. While other cards don't 'say' you can't do anything, depending on your deck, style, and victory condition, there are plenty of scenarios where there's no parry to a particular thrust.

The trade to Disgraced, to your example, is that a) it's an Event and thus heavily timing-dependent, and b) [and this applies to every card, obviously] you have to see it.
But yeah, if I see it, it shuts some stuff down, not truly too different from losing guys, a duel, a battle, a province, etc.
Accidental Confession doesn't cause Honor loss, and doesn't do too much in a mirror match, vs. blitz, and/or can be negated or redirected [this, too, applies to almost every card.]

I would completely agree with you if the environment were totally saturated with 'no' cards, but where we stand right now, I don't think 'no' is an abused mechanic.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Moto Damasko on Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:03 pm

BayushiTrevron wrote:I just think it's a matter of degrees. While other cards don't 'say' you can't do anything, depending on your deck, style, and victory condition, there are plenty of scenarios where there's no parry to a particular thrust.

The trade to Disgraced, to your example, is that a) it's an Event and thus heavily timing-dependent, and b) [and this applies to every card, obviously] you have to see it.
But yeah, if I see it, it shuts some stuff down, not truly too different from losing guys, a duel, a battle, a province, etc.
Accidental Confession doesn't cause Honor loss, and doesn't do too much in a mirror match, vs. blitz, and/or can be negated or redirected [this, too, applies to almost every card.]

I would completely agree with you if the environment were totally saturated with 'no' cards, but where we stand right now, I don't think 'no' is an abused mechanic.

True, but accidental confession is part of the reason crane did well. Because a majority of the field then was military based, and big unit or general military hates "you cannot assign or move in" in a control deck.

Also if there is something to be said for an event, it's that every game you can control it more than a unique card in your fate-side deck. IMO events are key for your clutch matches.

Just thoughts to think about. I know I loath kensai with superior reach which is why I'm packing my 3 sunders and 3 reckless rush. Also firm censure ... because in an arch with so many non samurai decks why the #%^& not... I want a promo version of firm censure with naleesh abusing her husband...
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  BayushiTrevron on Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:25 pm

Moto Damasko wrote:Just thoughts to think about. I know I loath kensai with superior reach which is why I'm packing my 3 sunders and 3 reckless rush. Also firm censure ... because in an [arc] with so many non samurai decks why the #%^& not.

This is exactly to my point though: even though a card may read 'no' effectively, there are still ways to mitigate or avoid the consequences.

Also, Thoughts to Think About- you should look into copyrighting that. Like Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey. You could do Thoughts to Think About with Pat as a sort of beef-flavored ruminations of Rokugan.
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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Sleep on Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:34 pm

BayushiTrevron wrote:Also, Thoughts to Think About- you should look into copyrighting that. Like Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey. You could do Thoughts to Think About with Pat as a sort of beef-flavored ruminations of Rokugan.

Hahahaha. FUND IT

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Re: EE thoughts.

Post  Moto Damasko on Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:08 pm

Sleep wrote:
BayushiTrevron wrote:Also, Thoughts to Think About- you should look into copyrighting that. Like Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey. You could do Thoughts to Think About with Pat as a sort of beef-flavored ruminations of Rokugan.

Hahahaha. FUND IT

Comes with a pack of beef-flavored ramen?
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