Combat Movement Topic

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Combat Movement Topic

Post  togashi_naiteiru on Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:10 pm

So, as I talked about last week, I had been considering how to make the Water Ring more relevant in the game, beyond it being your perception and strength. Because we have ignored the use of battle maps, and the movement of them to save time, and allow us all to story tell with our actions, I have noticed I have not paid much attention to anyone's Water Ring for the purpose of movement. 

One thing a friend of mine is doing with a new role-playing setting that also attempts to move away from needing a combat board is declaring the distances of things as such:

Close - Immediately interaction with the intended object.
Near - A simple movement actions will allow you to interact.
Far - A full round of movement would be necessary to interact with the object next round.
Very Far - Cannot interact with. 

Now, range attacks are modeled into that with increasing difficulties, and these descriptions are a valid frame work for what we could do, with some tweaking. We could in thoery make five distances, and have a Ring Value denote how far you could easily move between the distances.

So I would like everyone's thoughts on this to see if this would be something we should consider or something that would bog combat down.

I am personally not held to it, one way or the other, but I spend a lot of time trying to discover new ways to enhance the game and make your xp purchases mean more.

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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  Gosh on Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:09 pm

So if you're assigned 5 ranges and your water ring helps you move through them more quickly when higher, then in what way is that actually different than just stating a range in feet and letting your water ring determine how quickly you could close that distance? For example, if you need Water 2 to get to a Close target and Water 3 to get to a Near target in one free move, why not just label those as 10 and 15 feet respectively?

On a semi-related note, how many raises/what circumstances do you guys think a D&D style charge move would require on the attack? It's always irked me that you can rush right up to a target but you're incapable of starting a swing in transit or using the momentum of your movement to swing at the thing you're ending your movement right next to anyway. Would it require 1-2 raises, would it require you to be in Fire stance?
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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  togashi_naiteiru on Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:45 pm

Valid point.

And do you mean to move and attack?

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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  Gosh on Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:49 pm

Yes, that's what I mean when I say D&D style charge. In L5R you can run right up to a guy and then... wait if it took more than your free action to move. Fire stance embodies the essence of recklessly charging at your foe, but it only actually adds 5 feet to your effective attack range, which feels kind of underwhelming. When I think of the traditional Lion charge I don't think of a Matsu running forward until he's adjacent to his foe and then waiting for his foe to attack him because he's spent from all that running, and it seems like exactly the kind of thing that could be incorporated into the Raise system.

Edit: Personally I think being in Fire Stance should be mandatory, and taking 1-2 Raises should get there.
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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  Sleep on Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:12 pm

Gosh wrote:Yes, that's what I mean when I say D&D style charge. In L5R you can run right up to a guy and then... wait if it took more than your free action to move. Fire stance embodies the essence of recklessly charging at your foe, but it only actually adds 5 feet to your effective attack range, which feels kind of underwhelming. When I think of the traditional Lion charge I don't think of a Matsu running forward until he's adjacent to his foe and then waiting for his foe to attack him because he's spent from all that running, and it seems like exactly the kind of thing that could be incorporated into the Raise system.

Edit: Personally I think being in Fire Stance should be mandatory, and taking 1-2 Raises should get there.

This is only an issue if you don't have simple action attacks. I think if you are moving more than the free action of movement, then it should "take up" one of the two attacks you could do on that turn.

If you don't yet have simple attack actions, or for some reason you are complex moving and also wanting to attack, then I think this would be worth more than 1-2 raises. You are effectively getting an "extra attack" action, which is worth 5 raises. Add to that that 9/10 times the only time the extra attack action is performed is when the character is in full attack stance, and that part of the "cost" doesn't add weight anymore.

I think that it should cost 5 raises, and can be performed on any movement. That, or make it 3-4 raises but add a huge penalty to missing (like "in your haste to draw your weapon, you trip and fall prone. End your turn")

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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  togashi_naiteiru on Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:13 am

Although we have drifted off topic, that's not a bad suggestion. How does everyone else feel?

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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  Kakita Hideo on Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:49 am

I always attack my anvil in Fire Stance. Combat changes doesn't impact my character but I would like momentum to be a factor in attacks but creating a whole new system when you could just use the 10 feet or 15 feet thats instilled in the game seems unnecessary.
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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  Sleep on Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:40 pm

I also agree that we don't need to change movement, we just need to change how we respect movement. Keeping track of how far we are should be important

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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  Gosh on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:25 pm

I did undervalue it, forgetting that extra attacks were 5 Raises, and in a vacuum it is gaining 1 attack, yes, but the situation of going from 0->1 attack (some damages instead of no damages) is very different than going from 1->2 or 2->3 attacks (many damages). The reason I suggested Fire Stance as a req was to prevent tanky characters from charging and still being tanky. You're right that it's only an issue without simple attacks, so it should probably be a Complex action to boot- that way you have to commit to the charge and only the charge; it can't be abused with SAA and you can't activate a kata or anything else first.

Charge: Complex action, 3 Raises, requires character to be in Fire Stance- Move up to 10x Water Ring and get one melee attack.

Does that seem more balanced?
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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  Sleep on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:26 pm

I like it!

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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  Kakita Hideo on Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:32 pm

so whats the benefit of the charge? added dmg? attack dice? or is it just to be able to cover large distances and attack?
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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  Gosh on Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:47 pm

Simply to be able to cover a larger distance and attack in the same round without SAA, which isn't a standard option in L5R.
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Re: Combat Movement Topic

Post  togashi_naiteiru on Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:45 pm

Sounds fair to me.

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