Unicorn First Stab... (WIP)
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The Forgotten Bay Dojo :: City of the Forgotten Bay :: Kata of the Forgotten Bay (Decklists) *Ivory Edition*
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Unicorn First Stab... (WIP)
Currently in the works:
3x Colonial Dojo
3x Stables
3x Traveling Market (might go 2/2 with Colonial Temple)
2x Family Dojo/2x Well Defended Farm - Might be dropped for exotic market... Depends on attachments...
2x Vengeful populace
Pearl Bed
Bamboo Harvestor
1-3 more slots here...
IF there are slots I'll run the reserve destined as a two of.
2x Ide Kotana
3x Shinjo Yoshie - 7g
3x Moto Paikao - 5g (might drop to 2 of)
3x Moto Ulagan - 5g
3x Shinjo Sujikaro - 8g
3x Shinjo Tobita - 7g
Zansho Xp - 5g
Iweko Seikan - 11g
Shinjo Kinto xp 2 - 9g
Moto Taigo - 11g
Moto Naleesh - 10g
Moto Ming-Gwok - 9g
The Shakash - 9g
I'd drop If I notice that the uniques become a problem I'll probably drop a few... We'll see. I don't see any blanks worth running... even the reserve chick that draws a card isn't worth running instead of yoshie who draws a card is one cheaper and has a battle action.
We'll see how I feel on the holdings... Right now I'm leaning towards 22-23 bodies because of all the 6x good boxable bodies.
Currently I'm looking at running cheap followers, but we'll see. Black Riders are too good to pass up for the extra gold, commanders steed is possible also, and still cavalry. I kind of really like ashigaru spearmen but that's just me. Lots of decent followers.
3x Colonial Dojo
3x Stables
3x Traveling Market (might go 2/2 with Colonial Temple)
2x Family Dojo/2x Well Defended Farm - Might be dropped for exotic market... Depends on attachments...
2x Vengeful populace
Pearl Bed
Bamboo Harvestor
1-3 more slots here...
IF there are slots I'll run the reserve destined as a two of.
2x Ide Kotana
3x Shinjo Yoshie - 7g
3x Moto Paikao - 5g (might drop to 2 of)
3x Moto Ulagan - 5g
3x Shinjo Sujikaro - 8g
3x Shinjo Tobita - 7g
Zansho Xp - 5g
Iweko Seikan - 11g
Shinjo Kinto xp 2 - 9g
Moto Taigo - 11g
Moto Naleesh - 10g
Moto Ming-Gwok - 9g
The Shakash - 9g
I'd drop If I notice that the uniques become a problem I'll probably drop a few... We'll see. I don't see any blanks worth running... even the reserve chick that draws a card isn't worth running instead of yoshie who draws a card is one cheaper and has a battle action.
We'll see how I feel on the holdings... Right now I'm leaning towards 22-23 bodies because of all the 6x good boxable bodies.
Currently I'm looking at running cheap followers, but we'll see. Black Riders are too good to pass up for the extra gold, commanders steed is possible also, and still cavalry. I kind of really like ashigaru spearmen but that's just me. Lots of decent followers.
Last edited by Moto Damasko on Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:16 am; edited 4 times in total
Moto Damasko- Enlightened Forgotten Bay Monk
- Posts : 1242
Re: Unicorn First Stab... (WIP)
I don't think ashiguru is worth it unless you have a lot of printed range attacks for it to stack with.
panku- Daimyo of the Forgotten Bay
- Posts : 636
Re: Unicorn First Stab... (WIP)
panku wrote:I don't think ashiguru is worth it unless you have a lot of printed range attacks for it to stack with.
We'll see, ashigaru spearmen is dirt cheap and replaces itself at the end of turn, and the ashigaru from the discard. I also like the reserve follower but that's not an ashigaru.
Worst case I swap for something different. Where is cavalry officer when you need it. I'll be rocking dem new cav tactics.
Moto Damasko- Enlightened Forgotten Bay Monk
- Posts : 1242
Re: Unicorn First Stab... (WIP)
Journey's End? (Not sure if its worth playing vs Champions Tactics, or either at all.)
2x Turtle Shell?
3x Entrenched Position
3x false route
3x back to the front
2/3x Unholy Strike
3x Fallback
2/3x Coward
3x Versatile Army
2/3x some terrain, blanked forest? tears? Contentious?
2x Deliberations?
Ring of Earth
Ring of Water
Items: Depends on the gold scheme 3-4 is my target area, I count black riders as a 3 due to it's trait.
Ancestral Armor of the Unicorn
2/3x Haramaki-Do (depends on if I run colonial temple)
2/3x Ominous Armor
2/3x Storm-Forged Blade
2/3x Black Riders
2/3x Justice of the Crane (Good force to value, honor meta, may run the magistrate bow?)
2/3x Jiak
2x Turtle Shell?
3x Entrenched Position
3x false route
3x back to the front
2/3x Unholy Strike
3x Fallback
2/3x Coward
3x Versatile Army
2/3x some terrain, blanked forest? tears? Contentious?
2x Deliberations?
Ring of Earth
Ring of Water
Items: Depends on the gold scheme 3-4 is my target area, I count black riders as a 3 due to it's trait.
Ancestral Armor of the Unicorn
2/3x Haramaki-Do (depends on if I run colonial temple)
2/3x Ominous Armor
2/3x Storm-Forged Blade
2/3x Black Riders
2/3x Justice of the Crane (Good force to value, honor meta, may run the magistrate bow?)
2/3x Jiak
Moto Damasko- Enlightened Forgotten Bay Monk
- Posts : 1242
Re: Unicorn First Stab... (WIP)
I'm feeling to lazy to look up your personalities so i'll just comment on the fate side.
First, let me point out that you should always try and take advantage of Cavalry. Sleazing provinces wins games, Ivory doesn't change that.
2x Fall Back is plenty, its not a card you want to see multiple copies of. After the first one, its generally a dead card.
I'd run Champions Tactics over Back to the Front. I'm not sure you need Tactics though, as Cavalry and the box may already give you enough movement. Journey's End is definitely worth it though.
I don't understand why you would want to run the False Route?
Since your deck has no obvious synergy with attachments, you want to run just enough to see them consistently early to help you take turn 4 provinces. I'd run attachments that either have really good actions or high force to take advantage of Cavalry. I wouldn't run any non-cav followers, it hurts your options for soloing provinces with the cav engage. If you want to run a mix, run cav followers and items. You should only need 9 slots dedicated to attachments, too much more hurts your ability to take proactive actions.
I don't like ominous armor either. Its just too situational. There aren't a ton of kill actions and they can just use those on the guys who aren't wearing the armor. Instead they just bow the guy with the armor.
Storm-Forged is just bad. It doesn't do anything.
I'd run Family Family Sword over Justice unless you find yourself in desperate need of honor meta.
The more i think about Black Riders, the more i dislike them. They are just too expensive for what you get. Most of the time, you end up spending 3g on a blank 2f follower. The other issue is that you will usually end up wanting to use your box to pay for them due to the 5g cost, but the box isn't tirelss making them a potentially awkward purchase. Commanders Steed fills the same slot and is much much better. Its pretty funny, but Spitting Llama and Elephant Cav are actually good options.
Haramaki-Do is good.
Drop RoW, it isnt as good as back to the front or Champions and you won't get it into play.
Most of the terrain options are pretty mediocre, Crystal Tears, Eternal Rainbows or Contentious are probably your best options. I want to like Lakeside, but itll hurt when they destroy it and your guy doesn't unbow. I think im going to choose to go terrainless, I don't like having my action canceled when i can use something else and guarantee that it goes off.
First, let me point out that you should always try and take advantage of Cavalry. Sleazing provinces wins games, Ivory doesn't change that.
2x Fall Back is plenty, its not a card you want to see multiple copies of. After the first one, its generally a dead card.
I'd run Champions Tactics over Back to the Front. I'm not sure you need Tactics though, as Cavalry and the box may already give you enough movement. Journey's End is definitely worth it though.
I don't understand why you would want to run the False Route?
Since your deck has no obvious synergy with attachments, you want to run just enough to see them consistently early to help you take turn 4 provinces. I'd run attachments that either have really good actions or high force to take advantage of Cavalry. I wouldn't run any non-cav followers, it hurts your options for soloing provinces with the cav engage. If you want to run a mix, run cav followers and items. You should only need 9 slots dedicated to attachments, too much more hurts your ability to take proactive actions.
I don't like ominous armor either. Its just too situational. There aren't a ton of kill actions and they can just use those on the guys who aren't wearing the armor. Instead they just bow the guy with the armor.
Storm-Forged is just bad. It doesn't do anything.
I'd run Family Family Sword over Justice unless you find yourself in desperate need of honor meta.
The more i think about Black Riders, the more i dislike them. They are just too expensive for what you get. Most of the time, you end up spending 3g on a blank 2f follower. The other issue is that you will usually end up wanting to use your box to pay for them due to the 5g cost, but the box isn't tirelss making them a potentially awkward purchase. Commanders Steed fills the same slot and is much much better. Its pretty funny, but Spitting Llama and Elephant Cav are actually good options.
Haramaki-Do is good.
Drop RoW, it isnt as good as back to the front or Champions and you won't get it into play.
Most of the terrain options are pretty mediocre, Crystal Tears, Eternal Rainbows or Contentious are probably your best options. I want to like Lakeside, but itll hurt when they destroy it and your guy doesn't unbow. I think im going to choose to go terrainless, I don't like having my action canceled when i can use something else and guarantee that it goes off.
panku- Daimyo of the Forgotten Bay
- Posts : 636
Re: Unicorn First Stab... (WIP)
Played a little with dojo, it's a little cloggy when you consider the uniques the deck runs. The high costed dudes are solid though, I'll fool around with a different scheme n see what happens.
Moto Damasko- Enlightened Forgotten Bay Monk
- Posts : 1242
Re: Unicorn First Stab... (WIP)
Gold Scheme Math: It's messy but I got a lot from the brain-storming. Going to give secluded a try...
Personality Pool:
Majority - 4-5 gold
Secondary - 7-8 gold
Uniqiues - 6, 7, Lots of 9, 10 on naleesh.
Gold scheme is mostly odd but that doesn't matter anymore. Assuming balanced gold...
T1: 5
T2: 8
T3: X
Turn 1: 5
Buy Choices 2-2, 2-3, 3-3, worse choices. Requires seeing 2 holdings... JPI - 1 holding flip for worst gold. 4-4 - 1 holding flip for worst gold.
3-3, 2-3: 6
2-3, 2-3: 6
3-3, 2-2: 5
2-2, 2-2: 4
Other variants mark in at 5-ish. All variants require seeing two holdings.
turn 2:
(Assuming no shitty start)
Optimal Production: 11
Minimal production: 9
Buy Choices: 2-2, 2-3, 3-3, Larger Holdings (7 - buy non unique, 6 - 4 + 4 (requires attachments), 6 - 5 allows stronghold to be bowed).
Assuming mid-range: 10
6-4+4, 3-3/2-3 (requires attachments): 7 + 4: 17 prod (21w/attachment purchase) - 2 dudes&holding(s) w/ 1 attachment on board)
6-4+4, 2-2: 6 + 4: 20 prod w/attachment purchase
3-3, 2-x, 3-3/2-x (requires 3 holding flips): 9-7 gold: 19-17 prod
2-x's, no 3-3's: 7 prod on average.
Some combination of a cheap body (4-5) and gold: (suboptimal, unless you're still taking a province turn 4 with attachments and expanding gold turn 4, seems the choice for attachment decks, you can see less holdings)
Cheap body + double gold: 4-6 production + body: 14-16 gold - 1-2 dudes and/or gold
secluded: 4 production + 4 + body: 14 prod, requires expanding - 1-2 dudes and/ or gold, attachment
Gold Split: 14-16 holdings?
Secluded Outpost - 3 (Non-cycle-able)
Traveling Market - 3 (Cycle-able)
Stables - 3
2-3 utility 2-2's
? More 3-3's? Utility 3-3? 2x fudoist temple?
More 2-2's that make the deck flow better and are easier to expand?
Gold Holding Cost:
6 - 3
3 - 5
2 - 7-8
Body Buying:
Turn 2: (9-11 production)
Turn 3: 0-1 bodies starting (14 - 17 production, 21 w/ attach)
Turn 4: 1-3 Bodies w/an attachment starting ( 17- 21 prod, 25 w/ attach)
Turn 5: 3-4 bodies definitely an attachment
Gold Expansion Conundrum: Are attachment specific holdings worth running at all... They seem to produce less gold when buying unless you get the attachment at the exact cost, with useful 3's and 4's running around you limit yourself unless you can attach in dynasty where gold is rarely wasted on attachments. Most gold production is going to be bought out by turn 3 with additional small holdings coming on later. You want to see less holdings later, but smaller holdings. Smaller holding schemes require you to play more holdings, but larger holding schemes cause it to be hard to expand production if you flip it turn 3 instead of smaller holdings and bodies. Against fast decks (swarm/honor) this may be an issue body wise, you would need to play defensive against military (conquerer) to balance out the gold investment and out produce them. Against honor rush it seems unviable (more bodies are better) quicker.
Inari's increases gold production based on scheme, large holdings scheme will benefit less.
Secluded outpost thoughts: Spend less gold each turn on bodies, get attachments at higher efficiency. I can remove the "attachment holdings" and get higher across the board efficiency so long as my attachments run under the 4 gold. If they don't I still get better efficiency because I can split my attachment gold in the dynasty phase to personalities (4 gold + 3 + 3 buys a 7 gold dude with a 5 gold attachment and a 2-X holding, I can split that extra 2 gold from the second three to another body or holding). Let's look at turn 3 optimal gold and see how that matches out with bodies and attachments.
6-4+4
vs 3-3, 3-3 (2 gold net)
vs 3-3, 2-3 (2 gold net)
vs 2-3/3-3, 2-2 (1 Gold net)
Personality Pool:
Majority - 4-5 gold
Secondary - 7-8 gold
Uniqiues - 6, 7, Lots of 9, 10 on naleesh.
Gold scheme is mostly odd but that doesn't matter anymore. Assuming balanced gold...
T1: 5
T2: 8
T3: X
Turn 1: 5
Buy Choices 2-2, 2-3, 3-3, worse choices. Requires seeing 2 holdings... JPI - 1 holding flip for worst gold. 4-4 - 1 holding flip for worst gold.
3-3, 2-3: 6
2-3, 2-3: 6
3-3, 2-2: 5
2-2, 2-2: 4
Other variants mark in at 5-ish. All variants require seeing two holdings.
turn 2:
(Assuming no shitty start)
Optimal Production: 11
Minimal production: 9
Buy Choices: 2-2, 2-3, 3-3, Larger Holdings (7 - buy non unique, 6 - 4 + 4 (requires attachments), 6 - 5 allows stronghold to be bowed).
Assuming mid-range: 10
6-4+4, 3-3/2-3 (requires attachments): 7 + 4: 17 prod (21w/attachment purchase) - 2 dudes&holding(s) w/ 1 attachment on board)
6-4+4, 2-2: 6 + 4: 20 prod w/attachment purchase
3-3, 2-x, 3-3/2-x (requires 3 holding flips): 9-7 gold: 19-17 prod
2-x's, no 3-3's: 7 prod on average.
Some combination of a cheap body (4-5) and gold: (suboptimal, unless you're still taking a province turn 4 with attachments and expanding gold turn 4, seems the choice for attachment decks, you can see less holdings)
Cheap body + double gold: 4-6 production + body: 14-16 gold - 1-2 dudes and/or gold
secluded: 4 production + 4 + body: 14 prod, requires expanding - 1-2 dudes and/ or gold, attachment
Gold Split: 14-16 holdings?
Secluded Outpost - 3 (Non-cycle-able)
Traveling Market - 3 (Cycle-able)
Stables - 3
2-3 utility 2-2's
? More 3-3's? Utility 3-3? 2x fudoist temple?
More 2-2's that make the deck flow better and are easier to expand?
Gold Holding Cost:
6 - 3
3 - 5
2 - 7-8
Body Buying:
Turn 2: (9-11 production)
Turn 3: 0-1 bodies starting (14 - 17 production, 21 w/ attach)
Turn 4: 1-3 Bodies w/an attachment starting ( 17- 21 prod, 25 w/ attach)
Turn 5: 3-4 bodies definitely an attachment
Gold Expansion Conundrum: Are attachment specific holdings worth running at all... They seem to produce less gold when buying unless you get the attachment at the exact cost, with useful 3's and 4's running around you limit yourself unless you can attach in dynasty where gold is rarely wasted on attachments. Most gold production is going to be bought out by turn 3 with additional small holdings coming on later. You want to see less holdings later, but smaller holdings. Smaller holding schemes require you to play more holdings, but larger holding schemes cause it to be hard to expand production if you flip it turn 3 instead of smaller holdings and bodies. Against fast decks (swarm/honor) this may be an issue body wise, you would need to play defensive against military (conquerer) to balance out the gold investment and out produce them. Against honor rush it seems unviable (more bodies are better) quicker.
Inari's increases gold production based on scheme, large holdings scheme will benefit less.
Secluded outpost thoughts: Spend less gold each turn on bodies, get attachments at higher efficiency. I can remove the "attachment holdings" and get higher across the board efficiency so long as my attachments run under the 4 gold. If they don't I still get better efficiency because I can split my attachment gold in the dynasty phase to personalities (4 gold + 3 + 3 buys a 7 gold dude with a 5 gold attachment and a 2-X holding, I can split that extra 2 gold from the second three to another body or holding). Let's look at turn 3 optimal gold and see how that matches out with bodies and attachments.
6-4+4
vs 3-3, 3-3 (2 gold net)
vs 3-3, 2-3 (2 gold net)
vs 2-3/3-3, 2-2 (1 Gold net)
Moto Damasko- Enlightened Forgotten Bay Monk
- Posts : 1242
The Forgotten Bay Dojo :: City of the Forgotten Bay :: Kata of the Forgotten Bay (Decklists) *Ivory Edition*
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